They should have shot the bastard (2024)

Posted By: CossatotjoeThey should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

Police officer recently returned from Iraq smashed into Kuhn's home, choked husband and then claimed they assaulted him

A North Carolina couple who were terrorized by a police officer who had recently returned from Iraq are now fighting back, after sheriff's deputy Brian Scarborough broke into their house, assaulted them and then arrested the Kuhns for the crime of flying an upside down U.S. flag.
Mark and Deborah Kuhn of Asheville, North Carolina made headlines last week when they were arrested for flying an upside down U.S. flag, a commonly recognized sign of distress, in their backyard, after police claimed they were violating a statute for "desecration of the flag".

As is supported by the United States Flag Code as well as a similar incident in 2001, flying the flag upside down is not a mark of disrespect, and in fact is considered by many to be the highest form of patriotism.

However, since 9/11 there have been several cases where individuals have been harassed, intimidated and even arrested for inverting the flag, by those who confuse a love of government with a love of country.

Buncombe County Sheriff�s deputy Brian Scarborough had just returned from Iraq and according to the Deborah Kuhn, was sent by his staff Sergeant from the local National Guard to "deal with" the Kuhns after a local resident complained about the flag, a fact that was later admitted on TV news. A National Guard soldier in military fatigues had also previously visited the Kuhn's to harass them about the flag.

"This is a distress signal, we're not trying to desecrate the flag," Kuhn told Scarborough when he told the couple they were violating a statute. Police claimed the messages attached to the flag were the problem, but the notes merely pointed out that the upside down flag represented a distress signal and a warning that the country was in danger.

Even though Kuhn took the flag down, the officer immediately demanded that the couple show their ID's and when they refused told them to put their hands behind their back and was about to arrest them before the couple shut and locked the door.

Scarborough then proceeded to kick the door in, "And the next thing we know, the glass is flying, he unlocks the deadbolt and he comes into our house after us," Kuhn told The Alex Jones Show.

The officer then pursued Mark Kuhn through the house before intercepting him in the kitchen and putting him in a choke hold.

Deborah Kuhn called 911 to report that the officer had broken into the home and was assaulting her husband.

The officer then pulled out pepper spray to which Mark Kuhn responded, "Are you going to spray me in my house?" before Scarborough whipped out his billy club and the Kuhn's ran out of the house into the street, pleading for help from their neighbors.

"Nine police cars showed up, they whipped out the Tasers, they said 'get down we're gonna Taser you' added Kuhn.

The couple were handcuffed, arrested and bundled into a squad car, to the protests of numerous neighbors who demanded to know why the Kuhns were being incarcerated, but were told to leave by police.

Contradicting the police's account of the incident, that Buncombe County Sheriff�s deputy Brian Scarborough was injured when the Kuhn's slammed the door on his hand, Deborah Kuhn vehemently maintains that Scarborough smashed the glass of their door with his bare fist before breaking in, a description which is backed up by three other eyewitnesses, one of which appeared on TV later that day.

The Kuhn's are now also being charged with "assault on a government employee" - meaning that the new definition of assault is if a police officer cuts his hand by breaking into your house and putting you in a choke hold - you have assaulted him.

Scarborough claims that Deborah Kuhn slapped him while she was on the phone to the police, but the audio file of the call (listen here) clearly contradicts this.

They each face over a year in prison.

The Kuhn's case is similar in many ways to that of Kelly Rushing, a man from Lyon County Kentucky, who was arrested and charged for handing out videotapes of Ron Paul videos to police officers. Rushing was later found not guilty of the offence of "terroristic threats" but continues to be harassed by police.

It also mirrors the case of an Alabama man, who was arrested in 2004 for displaying a sign in his yard that read "Our Courts System is a Joke," under the pretext that it was illegal to criticize the authorities.

We are encouraging our listeners and readers to call the following number and remind the officials concerned that this is not Russia or Nazi Germany, and that officer Scarborough's conduct was shameful and an insult to everything America is supposed to stand for.

Scarborough's experience in Iraq of kicking down doors and taking innocent people to camps is not something that should be brought back to America, and the charges against the Kuhns should be dropped immediately along with a formal apology issued.

Sheriff Van Duncan's Office: 828-250-4503

Posted By: SteveRe: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

No mention of a warrant anywhere in the article. Where is the article from, BTW?

Posted By: derby_dudeRe: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

Hmmmm.

1. I never fly my flag upside down unless I truely have distress. Sorta like calling 911 for pizza because you are sick at home and want a pizza.

2. There sure is a difference between love of country and love of state.

3. There are those of us that love the country but hate the state.

4. There are those of us that love the country and put up with the state because there isn't anything else out there.

5. There are those that have bleed and died for both country and state and have deeper feelings than the rest of us for country and state.

Therefore, even though flying the flag upside down maybe legal I would not fly the flag upside out of respect for love of country and those who have bleed and died for country and state. I would also expect retaliations for disrespecting those who have bleed and died for country and state.

Posted By: Steve_NORe: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

All you have to do is read the last paragraph to guess what kind of site this story came from. Yeah, that's what Americans are doing in Iraq, kicking in doors and dragging the innocent off to the camps......no subtlety so you'll be sure and get the Nazi allusion.

The whole story is full of moonbat assumptions.....I'd love to see a real news story on this incident. Obviously, since you can burn a flag with impunity, you can fly it upside down all you want. Heck, you can fly it upside down on fire if you want.

I call BS unless there's a link to a real news source.....it's just a little too pat, too much moonbat stereotype.

Posted By: Violator22Re: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

Posted By: JSTUARTRe: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

I googled the story, I have no idea if it true, however here is a link.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/211690/When_The_Crime_Is_The_Arrest

Posted By: jim in OregonRe: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

couple of links to articles from the Asheville Paper::

http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200770725118

http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200770726111

and one from JPFO website..

http://www.jpfo.org/alert20020628.htm

Posted By: Steve_NORe: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

Here's the story, minus the left wing editorials and cartoons:

http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200770725118

I think the NC attorney-general needs to look at the Supreme Court jurisprudence on flag statutes....since you can wipe your butt with a flag and set it on fire, there is no way they can charge these people with anything.....

good thing for them they didn't, like, disrespect a Koran, or something really bad like that.

Posted By: alpinecrickRe: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

This lawsuit should cost the police department a bundle.

VA--where are you?--are you licensed in the state of No. Carolina?--you could retire with this lawsuit..........

SteveNO!--were you behind this?!

It is unbelievable to me that there are police in America who are unaware that this conduct is illegal--hell, it's beyond illegal. This is the same terrorist mindset that the officer was allegedly fighting against in Iraq--and his superior too.

But I think this happens more often than we are aware--but many citizens won't/can't fight back and make an issue out of it.

Casey

Posted By: hillbillybearRe: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

Keep in mind that Asheville is likely the most liberal place in the western part of NC (damn near as bad as Chapel Hill and Cary) and the Buncombe County Sheriff's Dept. has never been known as being very adept. A lot of stupid in play on both sides of this issue.

That said, I would have to agree that the Deputy seriously screwed the pooch on this one.

HBB

Posted By: Steve_NORe: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

Posted By: muddywaterRe: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

Chit-for-brains kind of conduct.. Not a good example of LEOs.

Posted By: ltppowellRe: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

Posted By: CossatotjoeRe: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

No it is not. The officer had no right to go into their house for a misdemeanor ticket.

Seriously, they should have shot his ass. It needs to be done a few times to stop this kind of [bleep].

Posted By: ltppowellRe: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

Posted By: blammerRe: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

Posted By: CossatotjoeRe: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

The officer's hand was by his own admission, inside the house. Therefore, unless the officer had the right to enter the home, then his hand shouldn't have been there to get slammed.

Cops are such chickensh*ts. First, they manufacture some harassment, escalate the situation, then charge the guy with a felony because his hand got a little messed up.

The mantra for the cop lovers on this board is always "we don't have all the facts". Well, in this case we have someone witnessed everything and says that they cop busted in the home. This is just wrong on so many levels.

Whatever happened to the country where it was said ,"I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Posted By: ltppowellRe: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

Posted By: Steve_NORe: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

Joe, who are you talking about?

"The mantra for the cop lovers on this board is always "we don't have all the facts". Well, in this case we have someone witnessed everything and says that they cop busted in the home."

You mean the someone who is the plaintiff in the case? Is that the objective witness you mean? Just checking?

Whole lot of dumbass involved here, but I would suggest slamming a door on the guy's hand was pretty stupid and childish, and turned a nice lawsuit for violation of their first amendment right to be A-holes into an ambiguous mish mash.

Posted By: CossatotjoeRe: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

No, I was talking about this guy.

Posted By: jim in OregonRe: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

From the few initial articles describing the incident,there seems to be conflicting accounts.
Be interesting to monitor the case and see how it adjudicates..

I will say that protesting about the state of this nation really divides & polarizes folks..and often emotions really flare.

It seems to me that both parties in this encounter might have taken different tacts and there'd have been no violence, no arrests..Jim

Posted By: Steve_NORe: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

Posted By: MannlicherRe: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

Posted By: kwg020Re: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

A dumb a$$ cop pulls a dumb a$$ stunt and some of you are ready to call all of us dumb a$$es as if we condone what he did. Get real! The Sheriff needs to kick this guy in the butt until he grows some brains.

The way it's reported in this thread also makes me think the reporter is no smarter than the cop. Dumb a$$ finds dumb a$$. Let's hope they don't cohabitate and spawn some more future dumb a$$es. I'm disgusted with both sides. kwg

Posted By: billhillyRe: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

Posted By: jim in OregonRe: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

general reply, not directed to anyone:

There we go again..letting emotions fuel up an argument between folks who have about 90% of real values in common..when we don't really have the facts..

SOMEBODY monitor this case and we'll see where it goes...:)

SteveNO, You & VANimrod and a few others who post hereare lawyers..how 'bout you watch this and give us the real Paul Harvey "Rest of the Story"??Jim

Posted By: alpinecrickRe: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

Excellent!!!!

Casey

Posted By: BigPappaX3Re: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

Billhilly,
Love the sarcasm in this reply.
Aren't we all fortunate the Founding Fathers didn't think this way ?
What these people were doing is something I find offensive( and rather stupid too) myself but they have every right to offend me( and to be stupid in the process)if they so choose . This is one of the greatest aspects of our nation. The Deputy on the other hand was extremely out of line. He needs to be punished for this type of activity , if the facts are in line with what has been reported here.

Posted By: alpinecrickRe: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

Wait a minute.

--I can do anything I want to the American flag on my property--I can kiss it and attach my lips to it, I can attach my butt to it, I can attach a gallon of gasoline to it, I can attach a match to it.

--So, the North Carolina statute is a bald face attempt to circumvent that right.

--The cop shows up with a "printout of the statute" in his hand--this was intent to do what? If a law was broken, then a search/arrest warrant would have been the only "printout". This was a bald face attempt to intimidate a citizen by a few policemen.

--They talk, the citizens take down the flag--how much time has gone by? Did the officer ascertain this was NOT the gardeners, the house cleaners?. Nope, after all this, he THEN "asks for ID". This cop wasn't finished intimidating. Maybe the homeowner said he had a a right to do what he was doing, maybe he said Bush was a moron. Whatever, the cop wasn't finished--or he would have had ID from the get-go.

This was screwed up from the moment the cop--and it sounds as though his superior was part of it--walked out the police station.

Unconstitutional statute, illegal behavior by the police.....

Then again, I could see where a portrait of GW Bush attached to anything could be construed as desecration................

Casey

Posted By: jim in OregonRe: They should have shot the bastard - 07/31/07

________________________________________________________

Good post, but a bit premature perhaps..

T'is said that if any man in America doesn't believe in freedom of speech and expression for even those whose opinions he despises, he really doesn't uphold nor believe in that inherent freedom at all.Jim

Posted By: BigPappaX3Re: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

Jim-in Oregon

I am not trying to make assumptions ( presuming guilt is jsut as wrong as what the deputy is accused of in my view) That is why "if the facts are in line ....
I realy hope I am being premature here. I hate to think this type of thing realy happens in our country . I would much rather find out the the Deputy was being a stand up guy , but as I said IF the facts are as they were reproted then he deserves to be punished .

Posted By: jim in OregonRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

As an ex LEO, I hope that our nation's sworn officers are doing right by law and conservative enforcement also.Minimizing conflicts, keeping peace.

Doesn't sound like that deputy did that from first accounts, but I will reserve my long away citizen's judgement until maybe someone tracks this incident and gives us an objective report.

This is not the first incident where American citizens have spoken out or demonstrated their disfavor with the politics and policies of our nation's leaders and often been severerely ostracicised or even persecuted for their beliefs..
That is a time long pattern when folks take a stand and end up tilting with what seems like the unstoppable windmill.:)

Probably won't be the last.Jim

Posted By: isaacRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

Posted By: Violator22Re: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

Posted By: alpinecrickRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

And if VA can get the job, he could buy out your law firm ......and still have money leftover for dozen or so new custom rifles

Casey

Posted By: isaacRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

Posted By: VAnimrodRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

There ain't enough money, buddy.... no way, no how....

As for this horsesh*t.... NC law says that I can use deadly force to stop an unauthorized break-in to my home, if I have reason to believe that the inrtuder will commit a felony in the home.

Assault and battery can definitely be a felony.

No warrant means no reason to enter.

No actionable violation of a serious offense means nothing other than go back and get a warrant or have someone (including the state) press charges and get an arrest warrant.

But, to kick in the door for flying the flag upside down? And then prosecute the homeowners for defending hearth and home?

Give me a f'kin' break....

Posted By: alpinecrickRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

Uhhh, weeellll, maybe VA could just buy a Gulfstream G5 instead of the law firm

Casey

Posted By: alpinecrickRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

C'mon, go for it VA!

Casey

Posted By: VAnimrodRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

No way, no how.

Even if I was practicing in NC, which I ain't, I wouldn't take this one.... a whole lot stinks, and I don't want any on me.

Posted By: ltppowellRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

Nah...they will settle out for about 30K, 24K of which will go to their attorney. Too much idiocy involved to risk trial.

Posted By: isaacRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

But when the idiocy is a bit heavier on the over-zealous LE side, the price of poker sky-rockets a bit.

As an aside Patrick, lawyers get one third to forty percent,OK??

Posted By: BarkoffRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

Posted By: isaacRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

Posted By: BarkoffRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

Actually I try not too, but that certainly explains it.

Posted By: isaacRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

Posted By: Jed 1899Re: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

Posted By: CossatotjoeRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

Oh, Jed, you're just upset because I called you on your idiotic Yankeeness. Grow some thicker skin and grow up as well.

Oops, sorry. I got you confused with Ruger 45/70 with you both being from New York and all. You damn Yankees are all pretty much alike, it is hard for us to tell you apart. Yep, Yankees and n###ers, pretty much all the same and look the same, as well.

Hey, man what do you expect from a racist (WTF?) troll. Oh, yeah, you're still mad about the "hom*o" remark as well. I assume there are lots of those in your neck of the woods?

Posted By: BarkoffRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

Why do I try not to read him? Well it is like this, I have a lot of friends who are LEO, my father was LEO, and there are a lot of LEO on this board who I think are pretty decent guys.

He may spin it any way he wishes, but the bottom line is that this guy hates cops. Now why he feels he must crusade by posting post after post after post I'm not sure.

He has put his position and opinion out there, we all get it, but that isn't enough for him, he has to continue on week after week, month after month, year after year.

I would think it would be very easy to do the same with articles aimed at lawyers, but I don't do that sort of thing. Even though I believe there are some real jerk lawyers out there it is easy to realize that posting such articles week after week might just offend the good lawyers who frequent this board.

I could post such articles, as I could post every article that describes good police work, but that would be petty just as his posts are petty.

I have never read anyone here who has moved me towards the ignore button but this is about the closest yet, am I'm not even LEO.

The title of this posting does not indicate that it is more LEO bashing, and I wish he would include that in the title so that people who don't wish to read that kind of crap anymore could just pass over it.

Posted By: CossatotjoeRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

Here is the deal Barkoff. LEOs as they currently police, represent the greatest threat to our freedoms currently in existence. Terrorists can only kill us. They cannot deprive us of any rights or do anything else. Our government and its agents, (LEOs) can and do deprive certain people of their rights on a daily basis. I don't hate police officers individually. I hate how policing is conducted in this country right now.

Cops are necessary and there are good ones who do good workmanlike jobs and wouldn't do anything like any of these do in these articles. I don't post the articles because I hate cops. I post them because they are becoming increasingly common and we should be aware of them.

Posted By: BarkoffRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

Oh really, where does the judicial fall into the taking of our rights? I would think far more of our rights have been taken by lawyers than cops who break existing laws.
You want to take on that argument? I can show you plenty of freedoms lawyers and judges have cost American citizens...no, I think this is a dislike for the person behind the badge, I think it is more personal for you than some trumped up rights issue.

Posted By: Jed 1899Re: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

Posted By: CossatotjoeRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

No, I would agree with you. Judges and politicians screw people on daily basis. So do lawyers, but that isn't a constitutional issue and there is a redress.

Cops are the only people in this country who can come into your home and shoot you legally. They do it regularly. That is an extraordinary amount of power. I think that it is being abused far more than it should be.

As a lawyer, I may screw you, take your money, do a bad job, or whatever. But when I'm done, you'll still be alive and you can sue me if you want.

Let a cop do all of that and you'll be lucky to be alive. If you are alive, you'll find it almost impossible to get any redress.

Posted By: CossatotjoeRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

So said the guy from New York who doesn't like the word "hom*o".

Posted By: BarkoffRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

OK, there you go, you and your opinion are on record and have been noted, so why then post another bad cop story next week, is it that you think we are too dumb to remember Cossatotjoe's opinion, or are you possessed with binging us around to your way of thinking?

How about a few posts on how the judicial has taken away some of my rights to carry. Aren't my odds ten fold that I'll be killed by some punk criminal because I can't carry, than a cop kicking in my front door?

I'm anti illegal immigration, should I dig out and post every single article I can find regarding crimes committed by, or the negative impact of, or would adding input to other posts be taken more serious?

One is adding input, the other labels me Wettibe. Two different subjects, same approach.

Posted By: skullmonkeyRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

I spoke with my cousin's husband about this case last night. He is an officer with Waynesville P.D. nearby to this. He said that the whole thing had kinda died down around there and that the family involved were not looking to sue. He has some friends who work for Buncombe Co and there is very little talk about it there now and that most of the attention was coming in from elsewhere. The reports given by the media were kinda (hah!) one sided and the whole story was less than reported. The wife and husband are less than perfect citizens and much more happened than them closing the door and ignoring him.

He was also NOT sent by the local National guard or reserve unit as reported to harrass them. The S.D. had received several calls about the flag and he was sent there by dispatch to question the problem. I'm on the outside looking in but the more info I get on this it seems like it ain't all it's been made out to be.

But then again.........whaddaiknow?

There you go.......my $.02

Posted By: isaacRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

How about a few posts on how the judicial has taken away some of my rights to carry.
===============================================================

HUH?

Posted By: BarkoffRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

Huh, what?

You are going to tell me 2nd amendment laws aren't decided by lawyers and judges?

Posted By: isaacRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

Posted By: BarkoffRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/01/07

I disagree, it is all in the interpretation of the law. What is an activist judge in your opinion?

It all boils down to lawyer arguments and a judges opinion. Are you telling me there are no anti-gun judges?

Yesterday, 13 July 2004, Judge John Finley, overturned Minnesota�s highly liberalized conceal and carry gun law.
In 2003, the Minnesota legislate attached a bill liberalizing Minnesota�s Concealed Weapons law to an unrelated bill and sent it up for signing to the office of Minnesota Govenor Tim Pawlenty. It is against the Minnesota constitution to do such a thing �
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Handgun Bill Goes To The Governor

(AP) St. Paul A bill allowing more law-abiding Minnesotans to legally carry a handgun easily passed the House on Wednesday and now goes to Gov. Tim Pawlenty, who said he will sign it.

The Republican-controlled House voted 86-47 to reinstate the so-called conceal-carry law, which has been overturned by the courts. The 2003 law allowed adults with a clean record, no mental illness and proper training to get a permit to carry a gun.

After the courts struck down the law, citing the procedure by which it was passed, the state reverted to a more restrictive system where sheriffs and police chiefs had more authority to refuse a permit application.

Posted By: isaacRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/02/07

I disagree, it is all in the interpretation of the law
----------------------------------------------------------------

That's right, now you're starting to get it. The law was made and then lawyers argue it's validity(both for and against)then the judges rule. Kinda that way for over a couple hundred years now.

Make laws that aren't subject to many varying interpretations and that aren't ambiguous. Until they do, I'll always be able to make some money. Your example above merely cites a procedural problem with the earlier law that was later overcome by another legislative effort. That's most often the case, in the legal world!!

Posted By: BarkoffRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/02/07

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

So, what do you find ambiguous about that?

Posted By: isaacRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/02/07

Posted By: BarkoffRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/02/07

Posted By: isaacRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/02/07

Posted By: BarkoffRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/02/07

Posted By: dennisinazRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/02/07

Posted By: crossfireoopsRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/02/07

..........?

GTC

Posted By: CossatotjoeRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/02/07

Never needed one yet and can't imagine a situation where if I did, they wouldn't be at least ten minutes too late.

Posted By: ltppowellRe: They should have shot the bastard - 08/02/07

As usual, you are correct and I stand corrected. What I should have said was that the plaintiff will get about 15% of 30-60K after settlement. The rest will go to their attorney, proffessional witnesses etc. Just an "educated" guess. You're in the suing business, I'm in the "getting sued" business.